"Should I work at a start-up or an existing company?"

Finance Business Partners face this question early on and throughout our careers.  Nick Mitrakis, Senior Vice President, Corporate Controller at WSP USA joins me to explore the pros and cons of these two supposedly dichotomous paths, and how it really boils down to what motivates you as an individual.   Spoiler alert:  Relax! You can explore both paths while building a great career.  Questions were generously submitted by students of Assistant Dean, Chris Bates and Professor Glenn Tyranski at Long Island University.   Join us for this hopefully inspirational 20-minute investment in your career!

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Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:02

Hi, this is Matt Cooley, host of the podcast Upside Downside, where we explore what it takes to be the best finance business partners possible. I'm a finance business partner myself by day and former president of the New York City chapter of Financial Executives International. Joining me today is Nick Matrakis, Senior Vice President, Corporate Controller at WSP USA and former guest on Upside Downside. Welcome back, Nick. Thanks, Matt. Glad to be back. Great. Thanks for being here. So today is about, should I work at a startup or at an existing company? Nick and I have done both. And today we're going to explore questions like this from students of Assistant Dean Chris Bates and Professor Glenn Taransky at Long Island University. Chris and Glenn teach an entrepreneurship class at LIU and have kindly shared what's on the mind of their students. I would also say that today's episode is useful for finance business partners at any stage in their career. careers. What do you think, Nick? Yeah, I agree. All right, great. So let's get started. Question one, is it better to work at an existing company before starting your own company? So that's about being a founder. Or should you just jump right in and start your own venture? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22

Well, I think it depends on the individual and their preferences. But personally, I would join an existing company just because the structure exists and you can learn how things are done and how you can do things better. I've seen so many companies that have been formed by people who have worked at established companies and then figured out, hey, I can do this better or I can improve the product or I can provide a better service and went out on their own after they have gained several years of experience and have a successful business now. That's my personal preference.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

I tend to agree with that. You can get a lot of training and maybe it doesn't require several years, but you can learn best practices, how things should be structured for an ongoing concern. And those tend to be really valuable things. Now, if you have a personality where you really have to do your own thing and found your own company, that's fine. But particularly at an early stage, you are going to be missing some potential skills that are valuable. So it's just something to consider. So next Next question. Is the transition from a startup into an established company easier than moving from an established company to a startup? So kind of a spin on that. And this assumes that you're not the founder. You're just, you're joining a company. So maybe I'll take that one first. You know, I think it depends on a lot of things, particularly the individual's personality. I'm in a large company now and we've acquired, we've And I think it's hard for people that are used to a smaller entrepreneurial environment to step into a large company with all the processes and procedures. That's just an observation. And I know in the past, it's been tough, a little bit tough for me, founding a couple of my own companies and moving into a large company environment. It really depends on your environment. perspective. To me, that's the harder path than going from an established company to starting your own. But that's what I think on this one. What do you think, Nick?

SPEAKER_00: 3:47

Yeah, like you, I've experienced all of it. And I know now for sure what an environment I prefer. It was difficult for me. I started off in a very large multinational. And I was very comfortable at in that place and then moved to another multinational, a bit smaller, but still large. And I enjoyed that as well, but I had to do more things already being a smaller company. I was wearing more hats. And it was a bit more, a bit less structured than in the previous company. And then I went to an even smaller company and then I did my own company. I started my own company. And I think it's going to be difficult. It was difficult for me. So I'm assuming it will be difficult for other people as well. You're going from a very structured environment where your job description is set, the scope of your activities and responsibilities is fixed more more or less. Of course, new things always come up. But now you're moving into a pretty chaotic environment where there are no set hours. There are no set tasks. You have to wear a whole bunch of hats. And unless you're prepared to do that and work long hours and do things that have to be done, regardless of what your job title is, if you even have a job title, then you're not going to be able to deal with it. It takes a certain type of person to be able to do this. I personally think going from a startup to a large company environment will be easier just because you already have the crazy hours behind you and dealing with everything. So now going into a large company, you're going to have more structure. You're going to have better hours, I would say, than if you're going into the other way around where you're going from a structured environment with set hours and tasks to a you know this needs to be done I don't care if it's the weekend I don't care if it's nine o'clock at night and and that's what it takes in a small company it's all hands on deck and roll up your sleeves

SPEAKER_01: 6:02

so so I like that so we're giving two different views on this one and I think that's important for the listeners so you can think about how that fits into your life and your personality so that's good the next one's in is age a factor when it comes to choosing an established business versus a startup? What do you think about that? I

SPEAKER_00: 6:24

think it definitely is a factor. If you're right out of college and you have no responsibilities, what I mean with that is you're single, you're not married, you don't have any kids, you don't have a mortgage and big bills and are responsible for other people, you can take risks You can join a startup and if it doesn't work out, you just start again or join an established business with a starting salary. But if you are married and you have kids and you have a mortgage and you have car payments and other responsibilities, it's going to be very difficult for you to risk everything to go into a startup because if it doesn't work out, it's going to be a problem for you and the family and the kids. So my advice would be to, if you want to take the risk, you do it when you can afford it, meaning for my personal life stage situation. And the sooner, by the way, you figure out what it is you want, the better, instead of taking the risk later on.

SPEAKER_01: 7:40

Yeah, that's interesting because there are, I mean, we both know some startup junkies that are definitely not in the early stages of their careers. And, you know, they're just hooked on it their whole careers. Yeah, I tend to agree. You know, you need super high energy levels. You need the ability to absorb the kinds of risks you have in a startup environment. Yet it's interesting that most successful startups are actually founded by people over 40. And actually even more so people over 50. So So, you know, that says to me that experience matters. You know, I also think if you read too much, you know, press from Inc. and entrepreneur, you know, everybody who's in a startup is, you know, straight out of college and has a great idea and they're working straight for the VCs. Yeah, I think the reality is a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00: 8:37

Yeah, you know, I do want to add there that to your point, Matt, it is also a personality. in a decision. Absolutely. I'm not suggesting that somebody who is not right out of college shouldn't do it. I'm just telling you from my perspective. I tend to be more interested in security. I'm not a huge risk taker. Other people may be big risk takers. They may not care. And maybe they have socked away money and they have a good cushion and they can afford to do that and take a chance. That's not how I'm wired. And now, at least, I've done it in the past and it wasn't my cup of tea.

SPEAKER_01: 9:26

Right. And I think that's a very important point. You've got to understand what drives you and what's important to you. So I think that's an excellent point, Nick. So is there more structure in a startup or an established business? This sounds like a trick question. What are the pros and cons of each?

SPEAKER_00: 9:46

So I talked about this a little bit earlier, but for an established company, the pros I would say is that it's structured. Your job is pretty defined and limited. It doesn't mean that you're not going to work a lot. It's just that it's delineated pretty clearly. You are responsible for, let's say, accounts payable, or you're responsible for a certain region for sales and marketing. And you're not going to be dealing with things outside of that scope. If you're in finance, you're not going to deal with marketing. In marketing, you're not going to deal with finance, if you will, tasks. The hours are more regular. I think large companies will pay more from a salary perspective. It's slower moving. You know, I'm saying it's a pro. For some people, slower moving bureaucracy may be a good thing. Others, you know, one, are frustrated by a company moving slowly. There will be likely more perks at a large company. You may be entitled to business class travel, flying, you know, overseas. There will be certain allowances depending on your position and title. And so you're likely going to have nice office space. The cons for an established company, you know, would be that if you want to learn a lot, you may learn less because you're a that's not as much as in a startup environment because you have a limited job scope. It's less dynamic. It's more rigid. And some people get frustrated by that. And if it's a public company, a listed company, there will be even more rules and internal controls you have to follow. So if somebody doesn't follow rules, they're going to be frustrated by the limitations of the established company. And then on the startup side, the pros, as opposed to the established company, you're going to learn a lot. You're going to learn a lot and you're going to have to learn it very fast. You're going to wear many hats. You'll have the ability to put your stamp on things. Likely these days, and even before, you may get equity participation or reward like stock options. They may not be worth anything now or later, but you will have the option to get equity. Very likely And sometimes they may even say, I can't pay you X salary, but I'll give you a larger share of the company. And that's a risk, again, you take. If the company takes off, you'll make a lot of money. If it won't, you just worked very hard for very little money, but you learned a lot. And it's going to be very dynamic and exciting. But on the con side for startup, you're going to work a lot of hours. You may burn out. It's chaotic. The environment is unstructured. You're going to have to wing a lot of things and people will be winging a lot of things. They're going to be cheap because they're going to be depending on funding. No business class travel. No business class travel for sure. And you're going to have to always find funding and keep your expenses down, which then means you're going to have a very small or a very basic office space. So don't expect to be in a high rise with fancy this and fancy that. It's going to be not fancy because you're going to have to try and save money until the business takes off.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And I agree with all that. My take on this is in a startup, in a way, it's more focused. You are wearing many hats, but most of the hats, most of the things that you're doing involve survival. Got to get that product built, got to get those sales. If you're a finance person, you're doing everything. You know, there are typically very, very few finance people in startups, maybe one for really small startups. And maybe that person's outsourced. So it does tend to be focused around survival action points, things that just have to happen. But basically, I agree with everything else you say on that. So it comes back to your personality and what motivates you. If you want to be surrounded with the trappings of this great company corporate job. A startup may not be it, but it is a great place to learn, as you say, Nick. So next, what is your favorite thing about corporate life? And I'll take this since I've been on both sides of the fence a few times. What I really like about working for a larger company are the different opportunities to move around and try new things. Might sound a little bit counterintuitive, but in my company, for example, We're investing in new areas all the time. And you have the ability to move around and participate in those. And particularly as a finance business partner, it's a great opportunity to learn the business, work on businesses that are small and two and three commas in revenue. And that's pretty cool. So I like that flexibility. What about you, Nick?

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

Yeah, I agree. I like the regular schedule. You know, the fact that I know I work hard from Monday through Friday, but I have the weekend free. It's rare, at least in my company and the previous company I was at, large company, that, you know, by 6 p.m. Friday, the emails stop. And in a small company, this wouldn't be the case. I like the fact that it's established processes exist and there's a structure. You have a lot of people there who have years of experience, who handle certain things. You don't have to worry about everything. There's a defined scope of work and there are some exceptions. I have a work-life balance, which I didn't have at the small company. Again, because there's always a fire drill. There's always something on fire. There's always something that has to be done. And to your point about possibilities and doing different things that that's true. The same thing applies here. My first large company, I was working in one area and then I was really interested in moving over into a different area and that happened. And then I was interested in moving again and that happened again. You know, you can move overseas if it's a large multinational. So there's lots of things that large companies do offer and those are the things that I enjoy about corporate life. Oh, that's

SPEAKER_01: 16:45

very cool. That's neat. So time for one more question. How is company culture impacted by how recently a business started? You take that first. I'm still thinking about that.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

Yeah. Well, so the experiences I've had is the founder, the founder's mentality and the founders, he or she puts the culture into the company. So the mentality that the founder has, that That's what the culture will be. For example, if the founder is very much into saving money all the time, is very frugal, drives a very cheap car, doesn't believe in any kind of perks, even like free coffee, free sodas, you're not going to have those things. Consequently, if you join the company coming from a large environment where you think, I can have business lunches and I can have steak and lobster and then expense that, you're likely going to find, get some pushback, some significant pushbacks, going and spending so much money. But as the company is more and more established and successful and money is being made and the founder makes money, the culture may change. I'm now thinking specifically about spending money but that extends to all aspects of the business, not just the frugality aspect. And it definitely comes from the founder. And when he or she interviews people, they will look for people who they think are thinking alike and are not going to be radically different, even though there are people who like to have other points of view. I've experienced that many of the founders, they want to have people who think like them so that, They think, okay, they think like I do, and they will help me accomplish the things I need to accomplish. They don't necessarily look for diverging opinions to be successful.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. You can fall into groupthink a little bit more easily in that type of environment. There are some very positive aspects as well, but diversity may not be top of mind for for a founder who's got a mission and a very short timeline to accomplish it. But again, pros and cons, and I'd say it goes back to your base personality and what really drives you as an individual. And again, as we said at the beginning, this can apply at any point in your career. If you've been sitting at a desk for 20 years and it's time to get some more excitement in your career, there are plenty of stories is of people that have, you know, taken the leap later in their careers and wondered why they didn't do it earlier. So, you know, anything can happen, but it's, I think today we've covered a lot of considerations that will certainly help students, but I hope also will help others, you know, think about where they are. So, Nick, I'd like to say thank you for sharing your insights today.

SPEAKER_00: 20:11

Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I wish I would have had this podcast to listen to when I was graduating from college because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just ended up at the corporate, large corporate, and I actually enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:27

Yeah, me too. I feel the same. And to the subscribers of Upside Downside, I hope this gives you some inspiration to push your careers forward. Thank you for listening.