Things Digital, with Chang Xia, Assistant Professor of Finance at St Francis College

As things digital become the new norm,  what does this mean for how we learn, how we analyze data and how we as Finance Business Partners advise our organizations?  I explore these questions and more with guest Chang Xia, Assistant Professor of Finance at St Francis College in Brooklyn.  Listen in!

Thank you for listening and please tell your friends about Upside/Downside - a podcast about growing your profits and cash flow.

If your organization needs customized assistance, I may be able to help. See my host page for more details.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Hi, this is Matt Cooley, host of the podcast Upside Downside, where we explore what it takes to be the best finance business partners possible. I'm a finance business partner myself by day and former president of the New York City chapter of Financial Executives International. Lately on Upside Downside, we've been exploring value creation topics from an academic perspective. Today, we're focusing on things digital, from thoughts about online learning to big data to the steps that companies should be taking if they aren't already. My guest today is Cheng Sha, Assistant Professor of Finance at St. Francis College in Brooklyn. Welcome, Cheng.

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

Hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_01: 0:42

Great to have you here. Thanks so much for your time. Can you tell us how you came to the role that you have today, Cheng?

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

Okay. In short, okay, in summary, just a one-sentence summary because of the financial crisis of 2007 to 2008. So, I I came to the United States for my master degree in financial risk engineering in NYU. So I came in August 2008, right before the financial storm.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16

Then in September, in September 2008. So I saw the news, the Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy on TV. So I knew my career after graduation with a FRE degree So it wouldn't happen very smoothly because the financial system, yeah. Yeah, in the US, the Wall Street, you know. So ideally, I would be a quantitative modeler or quantitative analyst. But with a lot of hedge funds, you know, when I was in business during that time, actually, so, and also at that time, I realized that knowing that the state of the economy of a single country and the whole globe is very important because I know nothing about the economy of the United States you know if I know something I may choose I may choose a different major so my my undergraduate major is mathematical finance so I can I have so many options other than choosing FRE so it's I mean, it was a bad choice, but it was a wrong major. That's what I fear at that moment. Okay. So, okay. So because of the financial crisis, then I began to watch the news more often. The more I watched the news, the more panic, just like after the pandemic happened, I began to pay attention and read the news. The more news I read, the more worried I became. So, okay, back to 2008, the fall of 2008, I started working on plan B, which is preparing PhD program application economics. So- That sounds like a

SPEAKER_01: 3:20

good plan.

SPEAKER_00: 3:23

Yeah, because the FRA is two years, it's too short. I came from China, so I need time to- adapt to the new environment and so so I applied for PhD program in economics then luckily I got enrolled in into the program with teaching fellowship so with the teaching fellowship I I need to teach two courses per semester starting the second year. So the first year just training. That's how I ended up being a professor.

SPEAKER_01: 4:03

Oh, that's excellent. That's a pretty dramatic story. And the timing, the timing is amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 4:10

Yes. So even during my PhD study, I sometimes I still, you know, I still want to go, you know, I still want to go work in the industry. I actually worked in industry for one year. Then I came back to this academia.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

Wow. All right. Well, that's quite interesting. So you've built online finance courses for your students. What have been the pros and cons of online learning, particularly during this last year? And how much of it do you think is here to stay?

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

Okay. So when we say online learning, e-learning, we we maybe mean asynchronous learning. Actually, online course after the pandemic, online course have two categories, so synchronous and asynchronous. So here, I suppose you mean asynchronous learning, right? That's not happening in real time?

SPEAKER_01: 5:08

Actually, both. I know my child has, you know, had live online learning. So I'm not sure how to categorize it, That's

SPEAKER_00: 5:21

the synchronous learning because already education, I mean, so for like in college, in college, like, you know, many online learning company, most of them, they offer a synchronous. So let me talk about the definition of those two. Then I can talk about the prongs and cones. Sure. How does that sound? Okay, great. So there are two categories, synchronous and asynchronous. Synchronously learning happens in real time often with a set class schedule and the required login times like just like you said your kids are taking online classes right because of the pandemic so this is synchronous learning they have to be there so the teachers and the students are together in real time yeah using a platform

SPEAKER_01: 6:15

then

SPEAKER_00: 6:15

a synchronous does not require real time interaction in that the content is available online for students to access when it best suits their schedules and assignments are completed to deadlines. So usually a learning management platform is involved. So when we say e-learning, we mean mainly the asynchronous learning. So I also teach many asynchronous online courses. I actually started to build online my course before the pandemics. So it's kind of, it's a very smooth transition for me, also for the college. I will talk, I'll talk about that later. But you know

SPEAKER_01: 7:02

what that says to me is your timing was excellent then in terms of asynchronous learning. So maybe you showed up for a job in New York at a bad time, but your asynchronous learning experience was exactly right time.

SPEAKER_00: 7:15

Yeah, I got the online teaching training from Columbia University.

SPEAKER_02: 7:21

Okay,

SPEAKER_00: 7:22

very good. I used to be an instructor in Columbia University, so where I got like half a year training. So I actually, I also write my HTML code when I do the, when I design my course.

SPEAKER_01: 7:39

Oh, nice. So what are the pros and cons

SPEAKER_00: 7:43

of this? So the pros are for the, you know, asynchronous online course. So pros Pros are flexibility as well as ease of access. So regarding flexibility, students can arrange their time to study as long as meeting the deadline each week. Or we can say each module, we organize by module each week. Then students can also repeatedly review the learning material of each module. Other than, you know, taking the, when you take the in-person class and the teacher just teach the material once, Online learning, when you learn by yourself, you can learn the material several times.

SPEAKER_02: 8:27

That's a good point. Yeah, yeah.

UNKNOWN: 8:29

So, the repeated learning can help students learn better.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

Also, you know, they can learn Monday, Wednesday, Friday, they got the spacing effect between each learning. That's even better. So, also, the learning material usually break into small chunks with each chunk takes three to five minutes to finish. So this creates more flexibility. Students can finish one chunk while waiting for the bus or on the train. So I personally, I'm taking online training workshops. I'm taking online courses based on my interest as well. So I like the flexibility very much, asynchronous. So yeah, very flexible.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

And do you think that it's here to stay? I mean, it's almost silly asking that question. Yes, it

SPEAKER_00: 9:23

will stay. However, the cons are lack of a sense of community and the less social interaction. So the online learning will stay, but they won't replace fully of the traditional classroom learning. So I think everyone, due to COVID-19, we all realize this normal social life is so important. From school to work, you

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

know, so, yeah. Is all of this analysis of our big data really worth the effort for companies? What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_00: 10:29

I would say it really depends on what kind of data and the organization have in their database and also the quality of the data. When we talk about the big data, as far as I remember, IBM data scientists break big data. into four dimensions, volume, variety, velocity, and the veracity. So regarding to the last one, veracity, that means so you can think simply as the quality. So if the company has a very good quality of data, so it also has the, you know, it also has the employee on site to analyze those data. So when not take a look and dig out some information. But it's really a case-by-case issue. And the industry the company belongs to also matters. You need to compare the cost and the potential benefit that we bring to the company.

SPEAKER_01: 11:42

Are there particular industries that you think tend to see more value out of their data? Because I've always wondered, just because you have a lot of data sitting in your data warehouse doesn't necessarily mean that it's valuable or worth the effort of analyzing. But maybe you have to analyze it to figure that out. I'm just curious

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

what your feeling is. Regarding as to a concern, I like the idea of, okay, we use the backward design in teach We focus on the learning objective first, then we create the quiz, then we create the material.

SPEAKER_02: 12:28

So

SPEAKER_00: 12:29

this is my experience. So Alan is thinking about what kind of value can be created by data mining the available big data. So organizations should focus on what kind of goal of the new projects. Suppose, for example, a team proposed a new project. Then what kind of big data does the new project need if the organization already has the data? Then, okay, that's okay. If it doesn't have, then it may buy it from a third party data provider. Well, they can just buy the analytics reports. There are many data companies, they are, you know, they are selling the analytics reports. So that's more time saving you know so so the so each company is different so you need to decide whether it is worth the effort

SPEAKER_01: 13:34

yeah but I like your point about backward design I think I've I've had that backwards in my own mind so no thanks for clarifying that that is that is a good way to do it

SPEAKER_00: 13:44

it's used in teaching in I was in elementary school you know right yeah We use that. We create the objective first, and then we create the quiz. Then we create the accountant.

SPEAKER_01: 13:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 13:58

I feel I'm ready to go back to school. So the student has no reason to fail the test.

SPEAKER_01: 14:03

Okay, good, good. I'm sure that makes your students happy. Speaking of your students, so recently they sent in a ton of great career-related questions, and I want to say thank you for those questions. A CFO colleague and I answered several of those questions on on a recent podcast. What I loved was the questions from your students were mostly about communications, how to get along with others at the workplace, what do I do if I made the wrong career choice, things like that. From your perspective, are finance students today more worried about getting a job after they graduate, like any job, or are they more concerned about finding a rewarding career? I

SPEAKER_00: 14:46

would say combined. But based on experience my students they want both they are more they are worried about getting a job to start a rewarding career

SPEAKER_01: 14:59

okay good

SPEAKER_00: 15:00

so they want to get a job and on the right path to their perfect career oh

SPEAKER_01: 15:06

yeah you know that makes that makes total sense that makes total

SPEAKER_00: 15:09

sense so for international students there's a different story so international students because they need sponsorship so but but ideally they ideally they want the job with rewarding career, but if like for international student, if they couldn't find, achieve that goal, they will, okay, they'll go become finding a job.

SPEAKER_01: 15:33

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, that's good. Last question. What steps should companies be taking to ensure that their people and data are being used to their full potential? And we've talked about a lot of interesting things here, but what is it that companies should be doing if they're not doing it already?

SPEAKER_00: 15:53

Okay, so this is a question related to management. So from the perspective of an employee, I would like to have transformational leadership in the workplace. So in this way, I think opportunities should be provided for creativity, for innovation, and allow people, allow employee to learn and grow and try new things. So this actually happened and happening now in St. Francis College. For the past two years, there are many training of teaching online courses are provided to the faculty. Most of faculty got teaching online certificate before the pandemic. So when the pandemic hits, the college translated to online learning very smoothly in general.

SPEAKER_01: 16:48

Oh, that's good to hear.

SPEAKER_00: 16:49

So You were prepared. And the fitness class is not included. Yeah, good idea. There's no way to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 16:56

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 16:57

So like biology, the lab class is also not included. Yeah, you don't want your students to do anything wrong when they mix the chemicals.

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:09

So when the finance course, accounting courses, mathematic courses, so most of the faculty in the college got the training. The college paid, you you know, they hire outside, you know, outside, you know, education companies. The training is some, the training, most of trainings are online and it's very flexible. I really learned a lot of the, you know, it's, you know, to enhance my teaching. Not just, not just online teaching, you know, in-person teaching. Because I think, you know, I always think teaching is also a kind of performing art. So all audience is your students.

SPEAKER_01: 17:51

Right, right. And so, so steps that companies could take by, by going through these transformations, you're, you're ready for things like a pandemic. You're ready to keep your employees motivated and to grow and try new things.

SPEAKER_00: 18:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Need to, yeah, company need to provide, need to spend money on those trainings. Yeah. And also, to, to, in St. Francis College to get the certificate we need to take we need to pass the quiz pass the course

SPEAKER_01: 18:25

did you pass on the first try yeah okay just checking all

SPEAKER_00: 18:31

right so yeah I'm personally I'm interested in psychology and early childhood education so a lot you know so I combined what I learned from psychology and early childhood like Montessori approach into my my college on my course, yeah. You know, I think that's benefit my students. So regarding to your question about potential data, so that's a tough question. It really depends. So I would say, I would say pay more attention to the data governance, especially the quality of the data, you know. So just make sure you have, you know, you have good quality of the data in your company in case, you know, in case you want to analyze it, you know, in future, that would be easier. If you have the poor quality, what some data are missing, there's no way for you to analyze. So that means the data is useless.

SPEAKER_01: 19:36

Yeah, it reminds me of the old phrase, garbage in, garbage out. So if you start with clean data, then you'll have more accurate analysis.

SPEAKER_00: 19:45

Yeah, just think when you work into to an organized, clean house. Yeah, you feel nice, right? When you work in a messy house with kids.

SPEAKER_01: 20:02

It's not the same. Yeah, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00: 20:05

So for the data scientists, for the data scientists who are going to deal with the data in the future, that makes their work much easier.

SPEAKER_01: 20:19

Right. Well, Cheng, thank you for spending time with us today.

SPEAKER_00: 20:22

You're welcome. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01: 20:26

Oh, the pleasure's mine. And thank you to the subscribers of Upside Downside. I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much.