Ep 24: The Last Acceptable Bias in the Workplace?

We've covered early stage career strategies in previous episodes of Upside/Downside.  This time, George Pastidis, Head of Sales Enablement Programs at Ericsson, joins me to talk about age bias in the workplace and strategies for thriving later in your career.  With a long history selling to multinational companies, coaching sales executives, and publishing the very insightful blog GeorgeTalkSales, George also shares why a growth mindset is critical.  Listen in!

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Matt

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Hi, this is Matt Cooley, head of the podcast Upside Downside, where we explore what it takes to be the best finance business partners possible. I'm a finance business partner myself by day and former president of the New York City chapter of Financial Executives International. I've had a number of guests on Upside Downside where we focused on early career strategies. Today, we welcome George Pastides, head of sales enablement programs at Ericsson, to talk about strategies for staying relevant later in your career. George has a long history in sales roles at multinationals and now focuses on sales training and coaching others on how to improve their value creation skills. George also publishes a blog called George Talk Sales, where I guarantee you'll learn something new and be very entertained. So much of what George teaches others is relevant to finance business partners. George, thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me here. I really appreciate Well, Matt, there's definitely an age bias and perhaps

SPEAKER_01: 1:31

Perhaps it's the last acceptable bias within major corporations. And in companies like the one we're working for, like Ericsson Technology Companies, it is even bigger. The average age of workforce is usually 43 years. And in tech companies, it's only 38. Big difference. I think that... Big difference. And I think it definitely has to do with technology. It has to do with the data analytics that have come to our lives, has to do with social media, the new programming language that made this bias to get bigger. And there is definitely, definitely a fixed mindset that says millennials are better than baby boomers when it comes to technology.

SPEAKER_00: 2:36

That's fascinating. Finance business partners are folks that support executives and companies with sound advice using their financial acumen, business experience, and so on. Very important role. What are some of the specific skills that sales professionals, that's your domain, skills that they have that translate well to a finance business partner role?

UNKNOWN: 3:01

Sigh.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

I think people should definitely start with power skills, what we used to call soft skills till a few years back. Skills like critical thinking, like problem solving, like communication and like empathy, which is probably the tip top one that they need to focus. Then how can you support business if you do not understand market? So market understanding in commercial business understanding is something that they should work on. And Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00: 4:11

And on the technical

SPEAKER_01: 4:12

side. Do you agree, Matt?

SPEAKER_00: 4:14

I totally agree. I totally agree. And on the technical side as well, getting certified or at least taking courses in data analytics tools and things like that may make a huge difference, I think. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, sort of bigger picture, keeping your skill sets fresh and your knowledge base very fresh.

UNKNOWN: 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

How do you improve those skills over time? And with your experience as a learning professional, how do you make those things stick, George? It's one thing taking a class or getting a certification, but how do you actually put it into practice and make it part of your toolkit every day?

SPEAKER_01: 4:54

This is, Matt, actually the difficult thing when it comes to skills and behaviors. It's like a spring. Imagine pulling a spring from its board. If you want to keep it there, you have to hold it. You have to find ways to hold it because if you leave it, it will go back to its baseboard, right? That's a good analogy. Yeah, this is the truth. So each one of us has to find things, ways to maintain. It can be practice. It can be continuous learning. It can be learning agile and never stop learning, never stop demonstrating growth mindset. But this is something, this is a continuous process, an ongoing process.

SPEAKER_00: 5:52

Just to build on that a little bit, what is it for sales professionals that make them successful long-term? Sales

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

professionals, I said before that people need to understand the marketing, to understand business. Sales professionals need to understand a lot their customers. Sales professionals need to be digital. Digital literacy is something very important in our days. They have to be comfortable with the CRM, they have to take advantage of CRM for tracking competition, for understanding their customers, for mapping their stakeholders. I think, and they definitely have to stay contemporary when it comes to the sales methodology. It was a few decades back, Matt, that they were just pushing products and services, right? Talking about the great features and what the products can do. Later, if we see the evolution of selling, later we had solution selling methodologies where they realized that they need, they cannot keep on dumping features. They have to understand the customer needs and they have to use smart questioning techniques for understanding the customer's needs so they can come up with a solution that matters for them. And the last years that we see sellers working in a multi-layered environment with many stakeholders, and especially when it comes to B2B, the environment, the selling environment becomes so much complex that buyers have no time for them. Buyers are knowledgeable. Buyers have a hard time to come to a common consensus among them. So sellers have to understand this environment, have to do their homework and go meet proactively and engage early on with their stakeholders and facilitate their buying journey. Help them come to a common consensus and leave behind the status quo and move forward to them and their solution.

SPEAKER_00: 8:27

That's no small task, facilitating the buying journey. No, it's

SPEAKER_01: 8:31

not. Not Not at all. And you know what, Matt? Sometimes they make the mistake to focus way too much on their sales journey, their sales systems and processes, and they forget focusing on their customers' buying journey, understanding this and facilitating this.

SPEAKER_00: 8:50

Right. Now, that's super interesting. I spent a large portion of my career as a sales controller, and I've quite honestly been fascinated with the journey of how the techniques have changed I think you outlined them very nicely here. And I certainly think this is relevant to finance business partners, interacting not just with sales as a function, but sales in terms of the customer and the customer journey is fundamental to our role. George, if you're in a later stage of your career and you want to stay relevant, what are some of the more effective strategies? I mean, we've touched on a few of them, but what are some other thoughts in terms of strategy that people should be using.

SPEAKER_01: 9:34

Well, I think everything starts with having the right attitude. Instead of having a fixed mindset, you got to have a growth mindset. You have to believe that you have to continue learning. You have to continue changing. This is the first thing. Everything starts with this. Then you got to find the right things to focus on the right areas to develop yourself, train yourself. Now, this sounds easy. but it's not. I understand it's not. Realistically speaking, it's not. So people need to seek out counseling, guiding. They work for a large corporation. They have to reach out to the learning professionals of the organization and seek out help. They have their performance appraisal of the year with their line manager. They have to to be frank and direct and open up and discuss with their line managers the areas that they need to develop on instead of hiding them. I think that those are key things that people need. But as I said before, everything starts with having the right attitude. You have to want to change and develop. You have to want to learn.

SPEAKER_00: 11:15

picture, keep your attitude positive. And if you do have that growth mindset, there are lots of opportunities, challenges as well, but lots of opportunities. So I hear you. Absolutely. Where do you think this whole issue of ageism is heading in the workplace in your view over the next five to ten years?

SPEAKER_01: 11:40

I'm afraid that seeing how technology evolves the speed that technology evolves with, it will get bigger. And we've got to do something about it. The governments have to do something about it. Although there are federal laws, I'm pretty sure in the states that you're based in and you work and you live, there is a federal law for this. But still, as I was saying before, it is still the last acceptable bias, I think. There were companies who work on the diversity and inclusion side, but I don't know, for some reason that I never really understood, This is still a bias. So one thing, the state has to do something, not only having the federal laws there, but doing something for making this happen. The second thing, I think, is the second key factor here is companies, organizations. They need to change the culture and tackle this bias. And the third thing is up to us. The employees, they're and the mature workers, they have to do something about it. And as I was saying before, some of them do have a fixed mindset and personally thinking, personally, I believe Matt, that you shouldn't worry much about them because when attitude is something very difficult to tackle, there are others who are so much learning agile. So I don't I wouldn't worry about them either. They will find their way forward. But the vast majority of people are somewhere in between. They want to change. They want to develop. They want to stay up to date. They want to be re-skilled and up-skilled, but they don't know how to. And these people need help. These people need support. These people need guiding and counseling.

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

Wow. And that's where folks like you come into play. And at our current employer, I'm so glad we have you as a resource. Hey, one more for you, please. I hope you don't mind if a bunch of finance business partners suddenly subscribe to George Talk Sales. I would be awesome. I would love to see this happening, Matt. Thank you. All right. That's wonderful. George, I really appreciate your time today. It's been a pleasure. And to the subscribers of Up Keep listening and have a great day. Thank you.